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   Discussion: Abortion
Finn,Dennis · 13 years, 5 months ago
To Rev. Bill Levering, two questions:

1.You mentioned at the dedication of the "sacred ground" abortion clinic , "we make women into childern when we say they cannot control their own bodies".  I am no biblical scholar but does Jesus not say somewhere that we must be like childern, with the faith and love like childern to gain the Kingdome of Heven ?
2.The fifth commandment is "thou shalt not Kill".  Is this not a commandment and mearly a suggestion.
Levering, Bill Back · 13 years, 4 months ago

Paul talks about spiritual maturity in 1 Corinthians.  There is a way in which our faith is accepting, but our behavior always need to be intentional.  The choices we make about the environment or our common life or our own bodies need to be those of grown ups.

I hope you will look elsewhere on this site for my response to your point about the commandment. 

Dave Farley Back · 12 years, 10 months ago
I am personally opposed to Abortion as a practice and as a solution, but am sick and tired of how so many voters make that and sexuality the basis of their vote. I cannot understand how so many people in states like Texas and Oklahoma and many other places can think Abortion is murder but have no problem with state-based executions. Until a few years ago, they could seek the death penalty on 16 and 17 year olds.

I also can't understand how so many Christian moral fundamentalists can justify the War in Iraq, and the sons and daughters we have lost. Some still think it is a noble war. I wish more fundamentalists took "thou shalt not Kill" Literally.

Dave Farley, Bennington, VT

Brudos,Darwin · 13 years, 4 months ago
This is intended to be a recitation of facts, as I believe them to be, and you are all free to do what you will with them.

Our lives all began in the womb of our Maternal Grandmother as our embryonic/fetal mother was developing. We were roughly 300 million before the factory ceased production. We were all identical and came about through cell division called mitosis wherein a cell divides into two identical cells (ad nauseam it would seem in order to get to 300 million). These cells, called oocytes, were all alive when created/developed/grown and had to have sustenance in order to survive. Despite the body's best efforts they were down to roughly 90 million by the time of your mother's birth and certainly retained their "life" as they awaited further developments.

By Mother's puberty they had been further decimated and were now only in the range of 45,000 "lives" and they continued to die off as your mother aged. After puberty one or more of these oocytes, on a 28 day cycle, divided by the process of meiosis (one cell of which seems to just dissolve and is gone) which results in an oocyte with only 23 chromosomes, rather than the normal complement of 46, that are from your grandmother and tends to explain the frequent family resemblances. This oocyte then moves into the area where, if the odds continue to be in your favor, it may meet up with a sperm cell that will cause it to continue it's journey toward becoming a human being. The average mother's reproductive system will present 500 such cells for human production in her lifetime. Quite a comedown from 300 million!

Now, if you think we've been talking pretty large numbers we were just getting started! The average male produces 500 million sperm cells per DAY. These of course are alive and must be fed in order to stay that way. Very few survive very long and now must also do the meiosis type cell division in order to get down to 23 chromosomes before meeting up with the 23 chromosome oocyte. Roughly 20 million are present in the male ejaculate, roughly 10000 make it to the uterine tube exit into the uterus, and roughly 100 make it to the vicinity of the oocyte and it now becomes a team effort to get one of them to the oocyte. The oocyte can be considered as being surrounded by a continuous picket fence with the pickets glued to one another. The head of each sperm cell has a thin special enzyme layer that can dissolve a little bit of the glue. It takes about two dozen sperm cells worth of enzyme to put a hole in the picket fence. Beneath that layer of enzyme is another enzyme that will put a hole in the wall of the oocyte and allow entry of a sperm cell, but only one lest we have too many chromosomes in what is now called a zygote.

The zygote is short lived as it begins mitosis cell division and doubles roughly once a day as it begins a several day journey down the uterine tube to attempt to implant into the uterine wall and set up feeding connections needed to go to term. It is estimated that approximately 60% of fertilizations never make it to the end of the first trimester.

Life is hard and you should have no doubts but that you will die from it!  
Mac Computer User · 13 years, 1 month ago
I am a Christian who is opposed to Abortion but supports choice. Contradictory? NO! It is as simple as the words themselves. I am against abortion, but I am pro-choice. I consider reproductive choice necessary for the equality of rights in our free society. Make abortion illegal, and the rich and middle class will travel to Canada or Europe for their abortions, whereas the poor will again be butchered in the back alleys. I wish we as a society could come up with a way to dramatically reduce, if not eliminate the need for abortion yet protect the civil liberty of choice.

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